Commons:Village pump/Archive/2023/09

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Category:Bègue (surname)

hi, from where comes the text "c:Category:Bègue (surname)". thanks --JotaCartas (talk) 18:37, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

See section above for Extra text in category. Rather than have duplicate discussions, I will mark this section as resolved. Please follow the discussion in the other section. From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2023-09

Volunteer staff changes

In August 2023, 1 sysop was elected. Currently, there are 186 sysops.

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 08:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Extra text in category

See: Category:Anne Roselle where "c:Category:Anne Roselle" appears. Where did it come from? Did I turn on something by mistake in my preferences? Anyone else see it? RAN (talk) 17:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I am seeing the same text appearing in every category. It appears to be coming from Template:Wikidata Infobox or one of its subpages. From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:36, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
it looks like the bug has been fixed JotaCartas (talk) 18:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Template talk:Wikidata Infobox#Template inserting page name as plain text on every page. From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:51, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:First Ladies by year

Good evening forum users! How do you feel about sorting by year the first ladies of states? The wives of presidents and monarchs are very often put in the same row. --MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 18:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:Women wearing nail polish

What would be the best way to connec this category to Women?--Trade (talk) 19:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Put it under Category:Women wearing make-up. Nosferattus (talk) 00:27, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Swedish page on Radom (city in Poland)

On the Swedish page about the town of Radom, not a word is mentioned about the 33.000 jews living in the city at the time of ww2. They nearly all got killed in Treblinka.

This is Commons, not Swedish Wikipedia. Raise this issue there, though the article is just a short stub there. Ruslik (talk) 20:04, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

"OAuth" tool for "Find images for Wikidata" of "PetScan"

When I want to add an image in WDFIST tool linked from "PetScan" (Find images for Wikidata) a get the following message "E1:You haven't authorized this application yet! Go <a target="_blank" href="/wdfist/query.php?action=authorize">here</a> to do that, then reload this page.", bu the link is not working (at least for me). Does anyone know how to go to the "OAuth" tool?? --JotaCartas (talk) 23:00, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

misscategorization and overcategorization

It is ok to fill up a category with files which is not the main subject causing the whole category to appear another category while having better categories for the images to be allocated to ?

Here is the problem. a user fill up the category with bridges from a pedestrian perspective Category:2023 in rail transport in Catalonia while having another category which is way more suitable to be categorized for Category:Bridges in Catalonia photographed in 2023

Problem 1: a railway bridge from a pedestrian view has barely anything to do with year rail transport

Problem 2: the category now looks like bridges photographed rather than a year rail transport category 9pm (talk) 13:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

In conclusion: I think the images should to be moved from Category:2023 in rail transport in Catalonia to Category:Bridges in Catalonia photographed in 2023

@9pm: I can't make any sense of "the category appears now more to bridges photographed than a year rail transport category". Just doesn't parse. Can you reword (either in English or some other language)? - 17:34, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I just rewrote the whole sentence , I hope it makes sense now and thanks for the corrections 9pm (talk) 20:18, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I'd probably put them in both (though I doubt I would ever have created something as narrow as Category:2023 in rail transport in Catalonia). These are not big enough categories for additional images to be a real problem. - Jmabel ! talk 19:59, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Please help with file move (reversion)

I am trying to revert (move) a file to a its original filename. The new filename is breaking links on Wikisource. I can't just undo the file move/rename because a bot has performed another edit since then.

Although I have removed the redirect on the original filename, and it shows as not existing, the page mover won't let me rename it to the original filename because it says it already exists. I have tried purging both files.

The current filename is Blessed Be God, A Complete Catholic Prayer Book (1925).pdf

The original filename is Blessedbegodcomp00call.pdf

Can anyone help? Or tell me where else to post my request? Thank you. Laura1822 (talk) 20:09, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

@Laura1822 ✓ Done. Because the redirect had a history, it needed to be deleted by an admin. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
THANK you!!! I have been beating my head against the wall over this! Thank you for fixing it so promptly. Laura1822 (talk) 20:23, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Different pictures, one file

A user has packed several different images into one file. Not sure what to do with that. --2003:C0:8F0C:7F00:F4DB:9305:33F3:9ECD 19:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

There are five separate files. Ruslik (talk) 19:41, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Nothing wrong with a quasi-gallery like that, but it belongs in the description, not in "other versions". "Other versions" is for other versions of the same image, not other images of the same object. - Jmabel ! talk 19:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Pinging @Zoerides, and I'll fix that placement. - Jmabel ! talk 19:51, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
That's an extremely narrow interpretation of the "other versions" field I don't agree with. As the documentation says "Links to files with very similar content or derived files;". Having photos of the same car in other versions is no problem at all and shouldn't be moved to the description. Multichill (talk) 21:53, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
@Multichill: But they are not "very similar". They are just of the same vehicle. File:Aeolus Haoji 006.jpg is so different you wouldn't even guess it had any relation unless it were linked like this. "Very similar" is thing like a colorized postcard based on a particular black-and-white photo, or two shots from the same camera position taken seconds apart. I've absolutely never seen "other versions" used the way it was on this photo. I see you've reverted, and I won't edit-war, but I think you are wrong. - Jmabel ! talk 00:04, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
For objects like sculptures it's common to have the other views also in the "other versions". Just a different view of the same object, just like with this car. Multichill (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
@Multichill: Never seen it, but then I don't do a lot of work here on other people's photos of sculptures.
Question: why isn't that (multiple images of the same sculpture) just done as a category? That's certainly what I would do. - Jmabel ! talk 19:54, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
As long as it's open ended, yes it makes much sense to create a category for a sculpture, or for a vehicle model. Most importantly, you don't need to update each of the other versions whenever a new version is made. A big plus for categories! But I can't see any harm in creatively using the "other version" parameter like in this case. Naturally, editors should be discouraged from making really extensive galleries that way, but a couple photos of the same object from a different angle... well that is (imo) what may be expected right there. Just compare the crop-feature, it allows the embedding of hundreds of cutouts from the original file, in the original file's description-block: and yes, as "other versions"! Prime example I encountered today: this PDF with 160+ other versions. Another one is this JPG with 60+ other versions. Yes I think this many cutouts are annoying and counterproductive, but someone made them.) --Enyavar (talk) 21:33, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
It's the same car, at the same time, and in the same place. These photos are more closely related to each other than they would be to photographs of other cars of the same model; linking them to each other like this seems like a reasonable thing to do, and it certainly doesn't harm anything. Omphalographer (talk) 03:51, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I agree with the linking, just would have put it in "description" not "other versions". At File:Ferry approaching Seattle August 2023 - 01.jpg I did something just like that the other day. - Jmabel ! talk 04:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
"other versions" is so often used as "related files". maybe it can be renamed as such.--RZuo (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Nothing to do about this, IMO. "Other versions" is just other related files, loosely defined. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 01:25, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Guidelines for naming visual arts works

I've found some works by Félix Vallotton that are misspelled ("Valloton"). Is there a guideline for naming works of this kind or is ot completely up to the uploader/renamer?

For example:

or:

--Carnby (talk) 05:06, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

--Carnby (talk) 11:59, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Again, I stand by my statement that changing the language of a filename is a way to start a war. If you insist on doing it I won't stop you, but I certainly won't participate. - Jmabel ! talk 17:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
These files are images of works of art which have original names, assigned by the artist, in French. Including those original names in the filename should not be controversial, especially if there's other reasons the filename needs to change anyway (like the artist's name being misspelled). I agree that renaming other files, like photographs, can be controversial, but this isn't one of those cases. Omphalographer (talk) 20:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Omphalographer: So do you also believe we should rename (for example) the roughly 40% of subcats of Category:Sculptures by Auguste Rodin that are named in English? - Jmabel ! talk 21:04, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I would be in favor of that change. That being said, those category names are established and there's no immediate need to change them, whereas these file names need to change anyway to correct the spelling of the artist's name. Omphalographer (talk) 23:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Carnby: No, don't go there. File names should only be renamed when incorrect and never to just improve them. See Commons:File renaming: "In general, Commons aims to provide stable filenames as there might be external file clients and file moving involves significant human and computing resources. Thus renaming should be used with caution."
You're welcome to add a correct caption. Multichill (talk) 18:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
So just correct Valloton in Vallotton?-- Carnby (talk) 18:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I wouldn't even do that because the sources seem to mix both variants. Multichill (talk) 18:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
AFAIK "Valloton" is just a common mispelling. Another mispelling is "Valloiton".-- Carnby (talk) 21:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Vallotton's last name is signed in three of these five pieces (the other two are signed "FV"); there's no ambiguity in how it should be spelled. Omphalographer (talk) 20:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Iranian copyright law

We have a large list at User talk:GTVM92 where the nominator is questioning whether Iranian copyright law applies to images of The Shah and his family. Can we aggregate them into one list? I can see where a few that are attributed to non-Iranian news agencies would not fall under PD-Iran, like File:Iranian and British royal families.jpg, we can eliminate them from the list. RAN (talk) 03:53, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Each of these cases are different. At least for File:Shapour Bakhtiar portrait 1.jpg, the question is valid. For other pictures, it depends where, when, and by who they were taken. We usually assume that pictures are published in the country where they are taken, unless we have information saying otherwise. Yann (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Those are two out about 50 nominations. I think we can aggregate the remaining ones, and leave off the ones where they are attributed to a non Iranian news agency or the image may have been taken during exile because of the age of the person pictured. --RAN (talk) 17:47, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

identification request

Maybe someone knows these gentlemen? I found a handful of pictures with him in the uncategorized files, but they lack a precise description. GeorgHH • talk   17:34, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

No idea, but the license of this file is wrong. It can't be PD-US for a 2004 photograph. Yann (talk) 19:54, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the former EPA administrator Michael O. Leavitt. --Animalparty (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I fixed the license, but the creator field claims "Environmental Protection Agency. Office of the Administrator. Office of Public Affairs. Office of Multimedia. (10/15/2014)", while the file's metadata claims 2004. Is this because the photograph was published or perhaps donated in 2014? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 23:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks all for helping. GeorgHH • talk   13:55, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: --GeorgHH • talk   13:55, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine

User:Cactinites recently moved Category:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine to Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine with a justification of "As per the Wikipedia page". Was this discussed? Is Cactinites perhaps unaware that Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014? Or that many Wikipedias (including both Ukrainian and Russian language projects) still use the title with "2022" included?

I think the move, and all the associated recategorisation, should be reversed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:42, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Concur. If this was done without a CfD or equivalent, then it should certainly just be moved back, and if someone wants to move the category they need to develop a consensus to do so. This is obviously not an uncontroversial move, and no one should be making controversial moves unilaterally. - Jmabel ! talk 18:51, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Not that I think the files should have been moved, but at least the description in the inbox for Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine says "ongoing military conflict in Eastern Europe since 2022." It's also a sub-category of a lot of other ones for events that took place in 2022. So as things currently are it seems like Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine doesn't include the pre-2022 conflicts. Again, that's not to say files should have been moved, but the description in the infobox at some of the parent categories at least need to be removed or changed in the process of restoring things so it doesn't seem like Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine is just for things that happened after 2021. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:47, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
That's because the description more properly belongs to Category:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine . Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:39, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

New guy here - updating an SVG diagram image and I'd like to contribute it to the commons.

This is my very first post. I am looking to replace an existing image with one I updated for accuracy and detail. If this is easy to do, I could see contributing by editing more images that need work.

I have a few questions:

1) What is the proper process for updating a SVG image file? (I updated it using Adobe Illustrator, and I'd like to replace the existing if possible)

2) Is there a "design guidelines" page that tells me what colors/fonts/styles should be used when generating imagery for the commons?

3) What are my rights to use this image in a youtube video?

Here's the image (non-updated version): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bicycle_diagram-en_(2).svg

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spdorsey (talk • contribs) 16:30, 6 September 2023‎ (UTC)

  • Convenience link: File:Bicycle diagram-en (2).svg
  • @Spdorsey: usually on Commons, you don't want to overwrite other people's files (see COM:OVERWRITE) unless you have their consent. Instead, you want to create your own version and mark it as a derivative work ({{Derivative works}} on the file page of the original, {{Derived from}} on yours. In particular, this keeps it clearer what aspects are authored by whom. Given that there doesn't seem to be anything actively wrong with the image in question, I'd strongly recommend going that route.
  • Commons has few, if any, design guidelines, except for a preference for vector formats such as SVG where they make sense. We're a repository, and we try not to get into fights about which version is "better". Those editorial decisions are generally left to the various Wikipedia articles, etc., that use the files.
  • If you want to use an image in a YouTube video (and, for that matter, if you want to make a derivative work) you need to abide by the license for the individual file. There are a wide variety of licenses here, but all provide for reuse, derivative works, etc. Without knowing the specific file, its hard to say what are the specific requirements for reuse.
I hope that answers your questions, but please follow up if it does not. - Jmabel ! talk 19:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

COM:ADT

Hello, the tool named Adiutor coded by @Vikipolimer has been adapted to Wikimedia Commons. Those who are interested are requested to enable it in the settings. Regards, Kadı Message 16:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Malformed deletion nominations

See: here where they are malformed, but need to be deleted, because unfocused. --RAN (talk) 20:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I've removed the manually-applied category using Cat-a-lot and created a proper bulk DR using VFC: Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Interior of Nordiska museet. --bjh21 (talk) 21:16, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Thanks! --RAN (talk) 21:23, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Gallery intro refs

Hello! I wonder if any guidance can be obtained re: what is and isn't allowed in a brief gallery intro regarding references. Is it helpful to interlink to 3-4 sources to substantiate content in the brief intro's text, is it not helpful or is it even expressly forbidden? For example, can the brief intro on a gallery about a person be linked to show that what is said about h is dependable, can the wording refer to an encyclopedia such as Britannica or none of the above, if there is no Wikipedia article about h. I have tried to find a guideline or the like on this, but have not been successful. SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:36, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't think there is any firm rule. In many cases, you'd do better to work up a Wikidata item, though.
I work a lot on Seattle history, and things like what we have for Category:62-68 South Washington Street (Seattle) are pretty typical for the city's older buildings. Certainly a link to a Britannica article would be useful (especially in the absence of anything in any of our sister projects). Four sources seems to me to be pushing it a little, though: at that point, why not write a Wikipedia article? - Jmabel ! talk 20:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I'm sorry I do not know the slightest thing about how to work up a Wikidata item. Wish I did. Could you please do one at the gallery for Jacob Truedson Demitz? There is an article on French Wikipedia, but creating one in English has proven controversial, and I am too close to the subject to avoid a COI problem. A lot has happened ref-wise, though, since one was deleted years ago. Maybe someone else will do one with updated info. Thanks again! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 05:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
I've connected that to to the relevant existing Wikidata item. - Jmabel ! talk 17:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Search for files not in category

Is it possible to search for files whose page text contains string X but which are not in Category Y? Would be very helpful when diffusing, expanding categories etc. Dave.Dunford (talk) 21:13, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

@Dave.Dunford: You can simply use -incategory:foo in a search. For instance "Dave Dunford" -incategory:"Images by Dave Dunford". --bjh21 (talk) 21:26, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
That's great – thank you so much. Is this syntax documented somewhere? (I did look, but didn't find it.) There might be other tricks that are useful to me. Dave.Dunford (talk) 08:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
There. -- Asclepias (talk) 11:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Odd thumb/display problem

File:Ketchikan, AK - Fire Engine No. 1.jpg: underlying image seems fine, but no thumbnails for me. Duly purged & it won't let me re-upload as a new version, says it's an exact duplicate, so I don't see much I can do from my end. Is this failing for others or just for me. - Jmabel ! talk 00:49, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jmabel: I can see all thumbnails of that. --ŠJů (talk) 01:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
And now so can I. Guess it was a short-term glitch. - Jmabel ! talk 02:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
But now I'm having the same problem with File:Ketchikan, AK - taxidermied wolf in entrance to a shop on Water Street.jpg, and this time I can't even see the underlying image (instead I get "File not found: /v1/AUTH_mw/wikipedia-commons-local-public.60/6/60/Ketchikan%2C_AK_-_taxidermied_wolf_in_entrance_to_a_shop_on_Water_Street.jpg"). Commons obviously has it, because I can't upload a "duplicate". I'm guessing there is some sort of server-synch'ing issue.- Jmabel ! talk 02:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
& a similar problem for File:Ketchikan, AK - waterfront along Water Street 05.jpg. Click-through for full image gives "File not found: /v1/AUTH_mw/wikipedia-commons-local-public.ba/b/ba/Ketchikan%2C_AK_-_waterfront_along_Water_Street_05.jpg" - Jmabel ! talk 03:23, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel: These are all working for me. OTOH, phab:T345285 is still unresolved.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:25, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Cats for lit lamps

This photo shows a lamp turned on during the day. I wanted to categorize it as such, but we seem to lack even a cat for lamps (or any lighting fixture) in on state, ans also in off state. Seems like a glaring absence, pardon the pun. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 05:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin: If no one has yet created such a category at any level, it means that users have not yet considered such a category necessary, and they did not consider it appropriate to complicate the categorization with this distinction. Even with many other machines and devices, we do not have separate categorization branches for on (functional) and off (non-functional) state. However, Candles have a subcategory of Category:Burning candles. --ŠJů (talk) 10:27, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I suspected that such a category does not exist because it was never created, as one could say about… well, most anything. I suspect that the paucity of contents in cats like Category:Vehicles in motion is that Commons deals mostly with static images, whereon the on or off state of most devices cannot be easily (or usefully) ascertained — a glaring exception (heh) being exactly lighting devices. Therefore I do think that such a new cat is warranted.
What I meant with the o.p. is to stirr up ideas about the new cat’s name and categorization; mentioning Burning candles as part of Candles is a useful analogous, and a good candidate for a subcat.
In terms of English, what would be the suitable wording?
(Of course, the new cat I originally sought will be the one chosen from above +" in daylight" or somesuch, with {{See also cat}} to Category:People wearing sunglasses at night, with some shared parent cats.) -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Such a category would certainly be useful, but we probably have to assume the fact that no one will be enthusiastic about sorting thousands photos of all subcategories.
I'm not very good in English, however, if there is a choice of more synonyms, preference should be given to the term that is as internationally comprehensible and unambiguous as possible. According to my vocabulary, the word "lit" is a bit ambiguous - it can mean both, shining object and (passively) illuminated object. Another requirement is that it should be possible to attach the relevant criterion in the same way and in the same form to the names of all subcategories, including categories with long descriptive names, e.g. "Exterior lighting fixtures at train stations" or "Luminous road signs". --ŠJů (talk) 14:08, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Good point about "lit". Maybe "alight", then? The most generic cat should not be constrained to electrical lamps, so "on" might not be ideal.
I cannot share your concern about the possibility that «no one will be enthusiastic about sorting thousands photos of all subcategories», though: That’s what many of us do every day, and love it. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I came across the interpretation that the word "alight" is inappropriate for electric lights. The available online dictionary does not even indicate this possibility.
If you are willing to sort photos of lamps and light objects into a deep categorization, I wish you a lot of perseverance. --ŠJů (talk) 15:16, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
"Lit lamps" is probably the most colloquial English. - Jmabel ! talk 15:17, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
it's probably best to have a similar or identical format for all kinds of "electrical devices that are switched on". most devices cannot be lit.--RZuo (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Category:Energized in American English, or perhaps synonym Category:Energised in Commonwealth English?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Degrading of a postcard by a blocked? user.

This so called upgrading of a postcard is a comprehensive degrade, and should be uploaded as a different image. The label in the bottom left is not a watermark, the yellow sky is typical of the house style printing back in 1890-1905. I have contacted @Jan Arkesteijn: about it.

Apologies too him, but this issue is too important to leave, just on his talk page.

Also when you edit his talk page a pop up appears indicating this user was blocked on 8 November 2018. Is this some unwanted artefact? It certainly took me by suprise. .Broichmore (talk) 12:11, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Embarrassingly enough, I just noticed the edit was back in 2008. However nobody has reverted this type of work it would seem. Broichmore (talk) 12:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
@Broichmore: that user was blocked for unwanted behavior which included overwriting files with horrible versions, just like what happened here. These files are tracked in Category:Image overwrites by Jan Arkesteijn for independent review. Why did you remove it without reverting it to the original file? By removing the category and not reverting you're saying the current version is fine. If you encounter such a horrible overwrite by another user you can just undo it with a link to COM:OVERWRITE. Multichill (talk) 18:23, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Now reverted to original file. - Jmabel ! talk 20:01, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I had already sorted this out by uploading the original postcard as a new file and linking it into this so called improved file, so please revert your edit. Many thanks. Broichmore (talk) 10:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Is there a particular procedure for doing this type of correction? I just relied on deleting the check this cat, which has loads of files in it... Broichmore (talk) 10:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Broichmore: Please feel free to revert me with appropriate comment. Since you hadn't said here that you had sorted this out, I assumed your initial issue still stood unaddressed. - Jmabel ! talk 18:09, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I see now that your strategy of reverting back to the original is the best method, So I've gone along with it and added two extra files, a cropped version , and a modified version. Broichmore (talk) 08:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Elon Musk family tree removed

This edit https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Elon_Musk&oldid=726496691 removed the Elon Musk family tree from his category. The remover described it as clutter, but for people with extensive family trees, we do have trees embedded in the category. It is a visual navigation device to move through the family. We don't take a screenshot and post it, because it is dynamic. People are currently working backward and adding to it. We have these trees for almost everyone with an extensive tree with Wikidata/Commons entries. I have no objection to it appearing collapsed with a click to open, but I do not remember how to add a collapse feature, can anyone help? --RAN (talk) 02:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Probably reasonable to have it there, but it definitely should be collapsible. You can just stick it inside an HTML DIV element with class="mw-collapsible". There are probably templates to do this more cleanly, but that will work. - Jmabel ! talk 04:41, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done Yann (talk) 15:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
  • @Yann: The problem now is that the reader isn't aware that the chart exists when it is collapse using this method. See: w:Sir Hector Og Maclean, 15th Chief where the collapse feature was baked into the template, and it leaves behind a title and an outline box. I think the collapse feature needs to be baked into the template. Unless you think of a way to make it more like the one at Maclean, any ideas? I haven't edited the template in years, the last time I edited it I worked on the colors. --RAN (talk) 17:49, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
    @RAN: We keep our collapsible templates in Category:Collapsible templates; see also Category:Archival templates.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 06:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Multiple better quality duplicates nominated for deletion by bot.

I left a message on the bot owner's talk page, but I wanted to let someone here know before they get deleted.

See File:Bellaire, Belmont County, Ohio, 1915 - DPLA - 6e29900fcb6f1fa78b41d0729043b82a (page 18).jpg and more map files here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Duplicate

The bot applies the "duplicate" tag to delete the most recent duplicate file. However, in this instance, the newer file are actually better because they give details about "Sanborn maps." The other file does not have this valuable information. Also, the file nominated for deletion has better licensing as well. What is the best way to delete the older files instead (reverse the tagged file)? There are many of these files like this. Thanks, --Ooligan (talk) 02:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ooligan: It's late, I'm tired; I suspect that just using VFC on Category:Duplicate to get rid of the bad bot edits is the quickest way to do this; deal with the side that should be deleted later. I'd do this myself but I'm about to head to bed. - Jmabel ! talk 04:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel, I don't use VFC. Can I just remove the duplicate tag manually? -- Ooligan (talk) 04:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Ooligan: sure, I was just trying to save you some tedium. It's a tool very worth learning if you want to avoid repetitive editing. - Jmabel ! talk 18:12, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I will try VFC. I undid some bot edits manually. Yes, "some tedium" as you said. I am unlikely to learn VFC soon enough to help with these files.
Fyi, see:
User talk:Don-vip#Multiple wrong duplicates nominated for deletion
and Don-vip note to DPLA bot owner here:
User talk:DPLA bot
and here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListDuplicatedFiles&limit=5000 Thanks, @Jmabel -- Ooligan (talk) 18:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Ooligan: Yeah, this one is a tough place to start on VFC, because it would require regular expressions, but it's very worth learning. Let me see if I can deal with this one for you. - Jmabel ! talk 19:17, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel, Your help is very much appreciated. Cheers, -- Ooligan (talk) 19:24, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Ooligan: Done, you can look at my contribs if you want to go through by hand and set up the {{Duplicate}} tags going in the opposite direction. - Jmabel ! talk 19:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
To fix the root cause, shouldn't one block the bot that uploads all these identical files instead? Enhancing999 (talk) 20:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Not necessarily, if it is uploading files with with good metadata over files the were uploaded haphazardly without that. - Jmabel ! talk 20:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
That's not what the bot is doing. It appears to do upload thousands of files we already have without any regard to current Commons content. Enhancing999 (talk) 21:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Dominic: do you care to respond to that? - Jmabel ! talk 23:16, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
As I noted on my talk page, I have been traveling with limited availability, so I have not been able to fully respond. I shut off the bot when I was notified, so there are no longer new duplicates being generated, and I don't really get why it is being brought up in this thread as there is no ongoing emergency. The DPLA bot has uploaded nearly 4 million files now in the last few years. It operates at a high volume. 2000 uploads are a drop in the bucket, and can sometimes happen in just a few hours—there have been over 115,000 uploads this month. I am not saying that to be dismissive, but Enhancing999 is severely misinformed to claim it is uploading "without any regard to current Commons content", and if that were the case, this would have been a much larger problem before now. A project of this magnitude, involving hundreds of contributing institutions, has a lot of code and a lot of edge cases to handle. It's impossible to guarantee there will never be a bug. At the same time, I am always dedicated to cleaning up anything that goes awry, if given the chance. Dominic (talk) 23:50, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Several bugs me a bit here.
First, OptimusPrimeBot does its job (mostly), it marks duplicates as duplicates and let human decide what human should do with this duplication (and no, it's not a nomination for deletion, that's up for the human to decide). Don't blame the bot (or its owner, or the {{Duplicate}} template) for that. That said, given the amount of files, maybe generating first a wiki page with the list of duplicates would be better in this case. @Don-vip: would it be possible?
Then, DPLA bot also does its job (mostly), uploading pictures, again don't blame the bot. The weird thing is that duplicates are both uploaded by the same account on a short period of time and there is some data that should make the duplicate obvious "before" the uploading. For intance, File:Bellaire, Belmont County, Ohio, 1915 - DPLA - 6e29900fcb6f1fa78b41d0729043b82a (page 18).jpeg uploaded on August 2021 and File:Bellaire, Belmont County, Ohio, 1915 - DPLA - 6e29900fcb6f1fa78b41d0729043b82a (page 18).jpg on April 2022. Both have the *exact same name* (except the extension jpeg/jpg) and include what seems to be an *unique* identifier. I totally understand how big imports can be complicated (and I must say, humans - myself included - often do much more errors than that) but here, I feel that the duplication could have been easily prevented. @Dominic: (when you'll have time of course) is there anything you can do here to prevent that from happening again?
Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 06:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi @VIGNERON! As long as there are less than 5000 duplicates overall, the wiki page already exists at https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListDuplicatedFiles&limit=5000 . As I have disabled the duplicate detection until this dispute is settled and I don't risk to see my bot blocked again, the list will grow every 3 days by about ~300 files (on average) unless some user or bot performs a large upload of duplicates such as the recent one done by DPLA. vip (talk) 08:06, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Maybe Don-vip's bot could skip the DPLA stuff and leave it to the uploader to proceed with the promised cleanup before any further uploads. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:38, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I guess I posted a copyright violation perhaps

My File:HP IL Fire District Map and oblique axes address grid.jpg file might not be in accord with Commons:Copyright rules by territory/United States. I guess I should tag it for deletion?

(Assume I don't want to bother to contact the Fire Department to get permission.) Jidanni (talk) 08:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jidanni: probably so. You're a little out of the usual 7-day window to just ask for a courtesy deletion of your own recent upload. - Jmabel ! talk 17:52, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
[I've nominated it for a deletion review]. - Jmabel ! talk 04:25, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
OK, thanks. (I hope my mistake doesn't affect my "scorecard", if any.) Jidanni (talk) 06:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Everyoen maeks misstakes. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:14, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

File:Chess edt45.svg again

See Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/08#File:Chess_edt45.svg,_File:Chess_Bdt45.svg for prior discussion. In the hope of avoiding everyone just reverting each other: User:Double sharp, can you explain why you have, over the years, repeatedly tried to make this file a duplicate of the inverted bishop file? Per Commons policy, there should not be duplicates: if elephants were truly identical to inverted bishops, then the files should just be redirects, but the edit history suggests they are not identical and the elephant file should be restored to depicting an elephant. You point to w:Ferz, which states "the ferz, represented by an inverted bishop, may move to any marked square", but surely the solution is to make pages like that use the inverted bishop file they say they intended to use, rather than to overwrite whatever different file they happen to be using with a duplicate of the inverted bishop. Pinging also the other editors who've edited this file, User:Shlomo, User:NikNaks, User:Koavf. -sche (talk) 00:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree with User:-sche. If some picture description says "incumbent president" and there is a picture of the outgoing one, we do not overwrite File:Donald Trump official portrait.jpg with Joe Biden's face, but rather change the article to reflect the new reality. If User:Double sharp insist of the picture of inverted bishop to represent a ferz, he can edit the diagram code and change the el to Bl. Alternatively, he can change the description into "The ferz, represented by an elephant, …" Or he can choose any other picture to represent the ferz, e.g. inverted king, inverted queen or even the regular queen, as used for ferz in w:en:Tamerlane chess. AFAIK there is no convention which picture should be used for a ferz.--Shlomo (talk) 07:02, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Well, I was trying to make it consistent with the long-standing convention at en:Template:Chess diagram to use e for inverted bishop. The two are not interchangeable: an elephant pretty much implies that we're illustrating one of the historical "elephant" pieces (and not all RS would actually draw an elephant, though some would), whereas an inverted bishop could mean "anything vaguely bishop-like" according to the problemist convention.
But yes, I mixed it up with the similar File:Chess ell45.svg and so forth, where there had not been a "B" at all and the change meant that there wasn't an inverted bishop left. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I guess the fact that it's "e" means that it's inevitably going to be associated with elephants, so I have uploaded a complete set of inverted bishops at the "B" locations, reverted the "e" locations back to elephants, and edited the en.wp articles and documentation to match. That should settle the matter; my apologies for the confusion. Double sharp (talk) 08:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Train-the-trainer course: OpenRefine-Wikimedia

Hi all,

Illustration remixing a vintage, 1950s-style illustration of a female teacher in front of a classroom with children. The teacher points to a 'blackboard' which actually shows an OpenRefine screenshot.

From November 2023 until April 2024, there will be an intensive online train-the-trainer course for candidate OpenRefine-Wikimedia trainers. OpenRefine can be used to batch edit and upload files on Wikimedia Commons; it is frequently used by librarians and in the cultural sector.

The training has room for up to 8 motivated participants.

More info about the course, and a link to the application form

Timeline

  • Now until September 15, 2023: application period. Read more and apply here.
  • October 1, 2023: all applicants are notified.
  • November 1, 2023: train-the-trainer course starts with a maximum of 8 participants.

All the best! Spinster (talk) 16:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I just read Commons:OpenRefine and gained a strong keenness about Commons:Pattypan. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 01:17, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
To each their own... (and having several tools for the same thing is a good thing, if one break there is an other one ready). Personally, I strongly suggest people interrested in mass imports to at lest try and take a look OpenRefine. True it can be a bit more complicated at first but there is much more potential. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 06:57, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
bitesized youtube videos will be more useful for noobs like me. (mw video player is atrocious.) anyway thx for the guide.--RZuo (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Commons anniversary

Commons turned nineteen today, so some sweets for great occasion. EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Cute :-) It sure was not super predictable as teen. Looking forward to adulthood ;-p Any bigger celebration planned? I would love for us to use the anniversary opportunity to attaract more attention, as Wikipedia had and now Wikidata does. Zblace (talk) 06:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Interesting to imagine how it will look like in 2050 --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

File names in series

I requested of User:Wieralee:

Please undo your August 2021 rename of File:Lithograph of Shah Shujah in 1843.jpg. The file is part of a set, named sequentially, and logically, as can be seen at Category:Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects.

They have declined, saying:

there's no rule that the sets must have the same naming. In my opinion names in this category are completely useless and meaningless -- users can't illustrate wikipedia using these pictures, because the name "Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects (BM 1970,0527.2.10)" describes the origin, but not the main subject of the picture. Regardless of my opinion, you can always request a rename using the "rename" template, but a rename from specific to meaningless is rarely accepted, especially when requested by someone other than the original uploader.

I think this is wrong for several generic reasons:

  • We have hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of images from third party sites, named in series in the manner of this image's original upload. Many, as in this case, use the title of the work for which the image is an illustration.
  • Series names are meaningful
  • Arbitrarily renaming images from series can be detrimental to the work of colleagues who collaborate with GLAMs and other partner organisations on mass uploads
  • The claim "users can't illustrate wikipedia using these pictures" is clearly bogus.
  • The original uploader is no longer active; but I collaborated with them on a number of aspects of their bulk uploads.
  • An undiscussed name change should if challenged in good faith, be reverted and a discussion opened.

I think we should discuss the generic points, and if necessary document a policy that such naming should be preserved (if necessary; we could adopt a model which preserves the original name and appends the new label; say: "Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects (BM 1970,0527.2.10 - Lithograph of Shah Shujah in 1843"). I also maintain that the specific image should have its original name restored. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:04, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Your right, we should name files the way the Museum describes them, which is the case here. This has been reinforced over time by our uploading bots. I notice he's named the file, by what would normally be the caption, and he has additionally dispensed with the BM identifier suffix. The latter is considered a unique identifier in itself. Also to mention the subject is identified as being (the archaic) Shaj Soojahool Moolk, if a rename were to be sanctioned this would be it Portrait of Shaj Soojahool Moolk (BM 1970,0527.2.4).jpg . Broichmore (talk) 13:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I can see some situations where it wouldn't be useful to files exactly how the Museum describes them. For instance, say I scan and upload a couple of hundred images of a postcard series and name them all as "author, series number, title", but I'm missing a few. Then someone uploads a the two that I'm missing from a museum and name their images something like "British Museum, Prints and Drawings collection, Accession number 1970,0527.2.4." I don't really see how that's at all helpful even if that's how the file is named on the museums end. Not to mention we already have the file description for that information anyway.
I can kind of understand why it would be useful for bots so they don't upload duplicates, but at the end of the day file names should be descriptive and it's not like bots can't just read file descriptions to ascertain the exact accession numbers of similar files to what they are uploading. "Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects (BM 1970,0527.2.10 - Lithograph of Shah Shujah in 1843" doesn't describe what's being depicted in the image though. Plus it's just needlessly obtuse on top of it. I guess you could name the file something like "Lithograph of Shah Shujah in 1843 (BM 1970,0527.2.10).jpg", but again I don't see what actual good it does to have the accession number in the file name. If were me I'd just name it something like "Lowes Cato Dickinson 1843 lithograph of Shah Shujah" and call it good there. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
1) Commons:File naming: "Names should be descriptive, chosen according to what the image displays or contents portray".
2) All these files are grouped in a Category:Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects. Why should the file names repeat the category name? This doesn't bring anything new... Wieralee (talk) 23:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@Wieralee: files are not necessarily seen in the context of a particular category. It as often as not appropriate that the name of one or more of the categories of a file belongs as part of the file name. - Jmabel ! talk 03:29, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
1) My point is that Commons:File naming is inadequate in these circumstances. 2) The image in question depicts a late from Prison Sketches. Comprising portraits of the Cabul prisoners, and other subjects. 3) I am not arguing that files should necessarily repeat the category name; I'm arguing that files named in series should preserve that naming. 4) The file is in Category:Shuja Shah Durrani - the current name repeats that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:05, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
depicts a late @Pigsonthewing: I have no idea what you meant by that. - Jmabel ! talk 04:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel: Perhaps "is a file which shows the appearance of a late prisoner"?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 06:03, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
My guess is that he meant "plate." As in a full page illustration that was printed separately from the book's text. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:45, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
"plate". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:39, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
this rename by Wieralee is ok. retaining the identifier id string might be better, though.--RZuo (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Fix Licensing tutorial en.svg

could someone plz fix errors in the codes of File:Licensing tutorial en.svg? i'd like an error-free version for translation into another language.

the same request had been made at https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Graphic_Lab/Illustration_workshop&oldid=800212376#Licensing_tutorial_en.svg Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive_93#Fix_Licensing_tutorial_en.svg.--RZuo (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Fæ's talk page

This got much too far beyond its initial purpose. Let's not resurrect old disputes. If the shit hits the fan, everybody looses. Yann (talk) 18:47, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Fæ is long departed, and User talk:Fæ is breaking under the number of template transclusions. Can anyone see why a bot is not archiving it, as is supposed to happen? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

It's getting bot-archived just fine – last archive was a few hours ago, at 07:55, 25 August 2023‎ by User:ArchiverBot. The oldest thread there is only five days old. The problem is that ~ 270 different deletion notices have been served in the past week or two. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 19:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Wait what happened to him Trade (talk) 23:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
@Trade: After the Nth time that they (Fæ's preferred pronoun, though I'm sure I've also slipped and used "he" at times) were a target of what they, at least, perceived as homophobic remarks, they quit. Some of the remarks were definitely exactly that. Oddly, the one that put them over the edge was something I think they misconstrued, but I can see how they read it that way in the context of what had gone before. - Jmabel ! talk 02:11, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
That's really horrible! :( -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:41, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Too bad User:Fæ/Civility, Commons:Civility, Commons:Harassment, and Commons:No personal attacks never went anywhere. Nosferattus (talk) 06:20, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
Oh, all that went somewhere. It was used to get rid of other “undesirables”, such as AlexisJazz (blocked at 1st strike over a transparently bogus accusation), while it was pointedly not used in order to keep around someone’s darlings like INeverCry (finally blocked after their 3rd serious meltdown). Fæ had almost always managed to present a formidably thick skin against all those slings and arrows, but it eventually become too much. It’s a huge loss for Commons, but we know that both the WMF and even some of our admins have the goal of seeing the end of this project, or at least its transformation into something most of us would not want to be a part of. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 02:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
To be exact, Fæ left the project so abruptly that at the time a batch of them was running, which was then cancelled. Fæ takes the view that the reasons for them departure are open for all to see, if only they wanted to see it. There has been doxxing and death threats and no active help or solidarity. Fæ would perhaps return if these problems were acknowledged and addressed by the community. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 22:38, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@C.Suthorn, you wrote, "Fæ would perhaps return if these problems were acknowledged and addressed by the community."
Toward that purpose, in what form could action(s) be taken at this time? -- Ooligan (talk) 10:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
For a start, the person who doxxed Fæ, could be repremanded. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel and C.Suthorn: Could you point to a specific diff, please? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 01:39, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: My remark wasn't related to any one diff, but it was this discussion that led to Fæ's departure. - Jmabel ! talk 04:47, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: The lack of Admin action against Beeblebrox in Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 94#Beeblebrox appears to have contributed.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:09, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Why did no one notice that the request was closed by a user with admin rights removed by community decision? This user is now also globally banned. We should not reopen the request, but something like this should definitely not happen. GPSLeo (talk) 07:27, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@GPSLeo: Please feel free to open a new request on Fæ's behalf. I don't have access to the source materials. Pinging @Beeblebrox as mentioned above.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 07:41, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
As I wrote, I do not want to open a two year old case. I would only take this into account if there would be a new compliant on new problematic behavior. There are no deleted pages connected to this case and of course I do not have access to the information of the banning T&S team. GPSLeo (talk) 07:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Strange. So potentially T&S wasn't even aware of it?
Seemed to me that Fae was one of the most productive contributors to Commons. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, if not the most. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 13:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Rodhullandemu’s closing note at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 94#Beeblebrox says «it should go where it belongs: WMF T&S. And it has.» -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 13:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I don’t think this is a matter of nobody having noticed: Rodhullandemu (the globally banned former admin you mention) was sanctioned several months after their closing of Fæ complaint against Beeblebrox, and, if anything, their stance as the closing admin appeared to be sympathetic to Fæ. (To muddle the matters further, both Beeblebrox and I, who would sharply disagree about Fæ’s merits, did oppose sanctioning Rodhullandemu…: see User talk:Rodhullandemu/Archive 4/Block.)
Be as it may, I support any action that would cause Fæ to reconsider his leaving Commons.
-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 13:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
who wanna tackle an enwp checkuser and the gang on wikipediocracy? next thing we know would be those users evaporate from wikis and become the next victims... (if i disappear, you know who...)
keep in mind that wikis collect your ip etc. so not only your online presence but also your real life might be affected.
"Why did no one notice that the request was closed by a user with admin rights removed by community decision?" did you also notice that user's closure was actually reluctant? because the gang had quickly mobilised to derail the original complaint? RZuo (talk) 17:39, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I'm trying to parse out whatever it is this comment is supposed to mean, and as far as I can tell it is saying that I, in my capacity as a CU on en.wp, use that position to doxx people so I can destroy their lives. I'd like to suggest that this discussion be closed and that this inflammatory lie be stricken. This is nasty, unfounded personal attack. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
From what I can tell of the bot configuration on that page, it will all be swept away within a week. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:02, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure exactly what is being asked of me here? This is all very old news and I don't have anything to do with how Fae's talk page is archived. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:31, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
    @Beeblebrox: I'm going to assume good faith and suggest you read the thread. You were not mentioned in terms of the original subject (the archiving of the talk page, which has been worked out) but in terms of what several people see as your role in hounding Fæ off of Commons. - Jmabel ! talk 17:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
    Fae was trying to get me kicked off of Commons, by claiming I was directly encouraging people to doxx them or throw bricks at their house or some nonsense like that, which, if I had done, would certainly be something I should be kicked out for, but it simply was not true, and when it didn't work, they dramaquit. That isn't hounding someone off.
    I admit I do not care for Fae, who, just like rodhullandemu, is quite skilled at playing the victim and the bully at the same time. That is not a trait I enjoy encountering. I'd ask again what it is anyone wants from me all this time later. I'm not stopping Fae from returning, that option is 100% open to them whenever they wish to do it. Beeblebrox (talk) 06:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
    #MeToo. Actually a huge injustice that RHE is banned and Fæ is not. Either both or none, dear WMF... --A.Savin 09:07, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thumb/rotation bug (error: Duplicate IFD0:Orientation tags were found)

c:File:Canada Permanent Trust Building Sept 2006.jpg displays incorrectly in the article w:Canada Permanent Trust Building. If this is something I could repair myself, please let me know how to so. Otherwise, if someone could fix the problem, it would be appreciated. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

@Cl3phact0: I used rotate template's parameter 'resetexif' (instead of degree number) to reset the EXIF orientation information of this file for you. Let's see how that works.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 10:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Jeff G., my tech-savvy here on Commons is limited (not sure if there's something that needs to be re-set or a cache than needs clearing). The enwiki article uses the thumbnail version of the file, which is still displaying rotated 90 degrees clockwise. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:26, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Cl3phact0: You're welcome. Steinsplitter's bot can run every 10 minutes, but it has not run in the 98 minutes since 09:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC).   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 11:09, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Gravity defying photo now properly oriented. Thanks again. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 12:39, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Help in cropping the image

Can someone crop this image File:Lipisingh.jpg. Basically, above her head the background shows people. I want to cut that portion. Bring it upto hat worn by her.-Admantine123 (talk) 11:40, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Done Broichmore (talk) 12:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

GeoHack is out

In the last several hours, https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php doesn't work. The links return message "504 Gateway Time-out". Unfortunately, almost all links from the coordinate templates in the Commons go through this page, so all other map features and services are unavailable. ŠJů (talk) 18:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Nearly hole Toolforge is currently down. There are multiple problems.
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T346130
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T346177
GPSLeo (talk) 18:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

User:CommonsDelinker/commands appears to be down

It looks like the queue at User:CommonsDelinker/commands has not been serviced at all in about 20 hours. Does anyone know if anything can be done about that? - Jmabel ! talk 18:38, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

looking into it —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel A restart looks to have fixed it. Probably due to the toolforge/wmcs issues recently. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@Mdaniels5757: looks like that solved the file replacement queue, but not the category move queue. (Thank you, sincerely, for solving half the problem.) - Jmabel ! talk 20:09, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jmabel Yeah, that's SteinsplitterBot's thing (CommonsDelinker only removes them when they're done). I posted on Steinsplitter's page. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 20:11, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Request for temporary ui-admin and sysop right for Adiutor integration

Hello everyone, I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to request temporary interface administrator and administrator rights for the purpose of integrating and deploying the Adiutor tool to Wikimedia Commons. I would like to have these privileges for a duration of one week. You can find comprehensive information about Adiutor through this link. I believe that having these privileges will greatly assist in the successful adaptation and deployment of Adiutor, and I am committed to ensuring a smooth and efficient process throughout the integration. Thank you for considering my request. I look forward to your positive response. Best regards. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 17:56, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Warning: This is no longer a current request, it has already been done.

@Vikipolimer, Thanks for notifying us. Your contributions for Adiutor improved many Wikis. We can use this tool here also, it would be very beneficial because tagging and reporting process is hard in Commons. I am pinging bureaucrats in order to evaluate this request: @99of9, @Ellin Beltz, @EugeneZelenko, @Jameslwoodward, @Krd, and @Odder. Kadı Message 18:11, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Context for those who (like me) had no clue what Vikipolimer was talking about: meta:Adiutor. - Jmabel ! talk 21:02, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I notice that all existing rollouts are on Wikipedias, and that Commons is a bigger project than the existing venues. Are we confident that it is well suited to Commons? For example, has the list of speedy deletion reasons been customised to suit Commons deletion reasons? --99of9 (talk) 05:48, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
@99of9, yes you can test the gadget. Commons:Adiutor I've already start the adapting process. If you want new features for commons, I can add lovely. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 05:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. I have enabled the gadget and will try to test it out a bit (so far I've found that things like: "CopyVio check" means only checking some text on the page, nothing to do with the image, so does not hit 99.9% of Copyvios on Commons). If the gadget already works, what is it that you need to edit with interface administrator rights? --99of9 (talk) 06:12, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
@99of9, I am currently in the process of adding templates and configuring settings that will be applied universally across the gadget files. Authorization for this task was granted a couple of hours ago, and I have just completed the initial setup. There are only a few minor tasks remaining, and once I finish those, my work will be complete. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 06:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I tend to be very cautious with suggestions of this sort when it seems that whoever designed it doesn't really understand the Commons situation and the assurance "everything is fine" is how many major disasters have started. I would like to see a test period of several weeks rather than a speedy rollout. At present I do not have sufficient information to vote in favor of any rights for this deployment. I reviewed the page linked to us by Jmabel, since the proposor didn't. I see three things which are listed for Commons. All three things are currently quite automated and I fail to see any reason to implement a second layer of code on top of what is currently working well. Perhaps Vikipolimer would be so kind to explain what exactly the benefits are of a system which reproduces what we already have? I would ask that folks take a quick look at the amount of information provided by the devs for this, see https://gyazo.com/892670f648c5b03d0884e46a6adaaa77 for a screenshot. "Adiutor: a tool that assists users in various operations" is insufficient information when compared with other existing addons. Cheers. Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Hello @Ellin Beltz, I believe there might be a misunderstanding. The features mentioned on the Meta page regarding Commons are actually additional enhancements specifically designed for Wikimedia Commons. Additionally, most of the features listed in the section above are already in operation on Wikimedia Commons. I must admit that I find the assertion that I lack an understanding of Wikimedia Commons a bit discouraging, if I may be candid. I kindly request that you take a moment to visit this page to gain a better understanding of what is actively available in this project. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 01:04, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I'm also a bit concerned. Just for one example, the list says, "Editors can request page move". How will that differ from the current "Move" tab in our existing UI? - Jmabel ! talk 03:03, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel, This gadget module (Page move request) serves the purpose of facilitating page transfers to new destinations. Typically, auto-approved users have the capability to execute page moves via the [move] tab on pages. Nevertheless, there are instances where the target page boasts a multi-version history and the source page is subject to move protection. In such scenarios, only administrators possess the authority to carry out the transfer. This tool is specifically designed for the submission of requests for these unique migrations that require administrative intervention, as well as requests from users and newcomers who lack the ability to execute page migrations independently. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 03:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: Which sounds like a description of exactly how Commons "Move" tab already works (possibly minus the existing "Move and Replace" option, I can't tell whether that was an oversight in your description or a difference in the behavior). How will this differ? I am concerned, looking at the list, that this is a solution to which there is no known problem. - Jmabel ! talk 03:39, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel, It's just puts a template to the page. So than I have a question for you, why you need this template on Wikimedia Commons? 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 04:10, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: Are you describing current behavior, or what your tool does? Because current behavior is:
  • If you have filemover capabilities, it offers "move and replace": on your own authority, you can move the file to a new name, and implicitly edit all instances where any other WMF wiki references the file to use the new filename instead.
    • And, yes, there are some circumstances where the move will fail, mainly if you try to move to a blacklisted filename, or if the filename you want to move to already exists; in the latter case, if the move really is correct, and if you can't just move the interfering file, you need an admin to delete it; I'm not going to try to cover every edge case here.
  • If you don't have filemover capabilities, then it simply adds {{Move}} with the appropriate arguments. Among other things, this categorizes it to get the attention of an admin or filemover.
How does that compare to the behavior of your tool?
(I am very concerned that you are ready to go live with this when we don't even have a list of how its various capabilities compare to the tools we already have. I see nothing on the list for which we do not currently have a tool in our UI. And tools break, and tools need to be maintained, and I really don't want to see a bunch of dual maintenance. But first, please address my specific question about the comparison for this particular feature.)- Jmabel ! talk 04:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
maybe the tool duplicates other existing tools, but it's good to have something with better design, upkeep, and one-for-all functionality.
i enabled it as soon as i saw it was added in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition and tested it. so far i'm mostly satisfied. it seems decent. but i continue using the existing old tools just because i'm more familiar with those and dont have the time to learn this new tool for now.--RZuo (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@RZuo: my concern isn't so much where it may duplicate other tools as where it may almost duplicate them, but with less functionality. Conversely, I'd be very interested if there is anything actually new here. - Jmabel ! talk 17:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I read this thread and also the linked pages (meta:Adiutor and Commons:Adiutor) and their talk pages — and I am, for now at least, not using this. Really fishy — someone from the developer team could at answer questions? And really was there a specific coverage of Commons and yet the main namespace considered was ns:0 (article/gallery)…? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:06, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin, @RZuo The Adiutor gadget has been successfully integrated into Wikimedia Commons gadgets, and as a result, this request can now be marked as complete. We're pleased to inform you that the gadget has been optimized specifically for Wikimedia Commons and comes with a host of new features tailored to enhance the Wikimedia Commons experience. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 12:15, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
That’s why you’re ignoring questions about it? Done deal, moving on? Yeah that’s the WMF shills’ style, but seldom this much on the nose. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin, I'm not ignoring the questions, I'm not a WMF employee, I'm just a volunteer like you, I've made a tool available to help people here as much as I can and this request is no longer relevant, in addition if you have any questions please ask them on the meta page. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 13:50, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
I appologize for my harsh tone — it was prompted by (what I interpreted as) your use of “corporate speech” but was not warranted. (You can still answer Jmabel’s questions, though.) -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:22, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin, Also I already answered your question, how would the gadget be ready to use if we didn't adapt namespace etc. Have you ever tested it before asking this question? 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 13:59, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

I continue to have the same question, and I don't see it addressed by Vikipolimer or anyone else. Is this functioning just as a different UI to existing Commons tools? If so, fine. If not, then what are the functional differences from our various tools for the various purposes? Is there anything actually new here by way of functionality? We need, and I mean that word need, a description of these differences and additions. Otherwise, we are being presented with a new tool with mystery behaviors that may or may not be desirable.

I'm not so concerned about functionality that merely gives information, but it is clear that this tool can execute actions. In particular, I still cannot tell if you get a different result in some scenarios if you use Adiutor to move a file, as against the existing "Move & Replace". - Jmabel ! talk 14:36, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jmabel, sorry I miss that question, I'm kinda busy but let me answer this question, Adiutor' does not move a file, it only helps the user who cannot move a file to request that it be moved, other than that, the operations that can be done with adiutor are listed on its page, if you have any questions or comments about the tool, please voice them on the tool's page. And here's the list what editors can do with Adiutor:
Features
  • Editors can create speedy deletion requests.
  • Editors can nominate files for deletion.
  • Editors can request page protections
  • Editors can request user blocks
  • Editors can request page moves
  • Editors can see the recent diff on a page.
  • Editors can check the copyright status
  • Editors can see the user widget on user's user page.
  • Editors can see recent changes of the page.
  • Editors can issue warnings to users.
  • Editors can report copyright violations.
  • Editors can create an investigation for sockpuppetry.
  • Editors can report sockpuppet or sockpuppet master.
  • Admins can block users by user blocking module.
  • Admins can perform speedy page deletion and batch page deletion.
  • Admins can finalize the nominated files for deletion.
𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 14:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: Yes, I've seen the list. I wasn't asking you to replicate it here. What I am asking is for each of these features where we already have a tool, how does the behavior of Adiutor differ from our existing tool?
So far you've effectively said that the "move" tool here duplicates part of what we already have, but is less functional. Can you understand why we would like to understand more of what this does and doesn't do? Not a "feature list", an actual description of how it is functionally different from our existing tools for many of these purposes. - Jmabel ! talk 14:53, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel I apologize, but I believe I may not fully grasp the complete scope and logic of your question. These are some inherent features that can be removed if they are causing you any harm or kept if they are not problematic. These features in this gadget may already exist in another tool, which should not hinder you from using the other gadget. We aim to keep the gadget as versatile as possible and have consolidated various functionalities that users activate across different tools into a single centralized gadget. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 15:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: Let me try another concrete example. You say, "Admins can block users by user blocking module." Does the UI you provide either omit any of the capabilities we have at Special:Block/USERNAME or add capabilities that we do not have there?
And, at the opposite extreme, let me try the most general question: what existing problem or problems on Commons is this tool intended to solve? - Jmabel ! talk 18:33, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel, I appreciate your perspective, which seems to differ from the current approach. It's important to note that the user blocking module within the MediaWiki interface serves as a practical tool designed to streamline processes. If your intention is to provide constructive criticism, please feel free to continue doing so. However, if you prefer not to use this tool, you have the option to disable it. Any discussions regarding the removal of this tool from Wikimedia Commons should be directed to the community for consideration. The tool's functions and additional information are well-documented on its dedicated page. It's crucial to clarify that your concerns seem to be centered around the tool's operations rather than its existence. It's worth noting that aside from your perspective, there are users who have provided positive feedback and find value in using this tool. I may not fully grasp the specific issue you are advocating for, but if you have any suggestions or advice for me as the developer of this tool, please feel free to share them in the discussion section of the meta page. Regrettably, it appears that I may not be able to provide further assistance on this matter at this time, as our discussion seems to have reached an impasse. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 21:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: on its dedicated page: can you please provide a link to the page you are talking about? And I'm not rejecting the tool: I'm saying that when we add a tool here, we normally discuss what it does, how it differs from existing capabilities, etc. and I've seen none of that, so I frankly have no informed opinion of your tool. Perhaps the answer to what I've asked is somewhere, but as far as I can see the only link you have provided is to meta:Adiutor, and all I see here is an assertion that a blocking capability exists, not what it can and cannot do. If it is less flexible in how blocks can be done, I think we need to know that. When we are bringing in new admins who are learning the admin tools for the first time, if we have two different blocking tools and one has less flexibility, we need to be able to tell them that rather than have them possibly start using the less capable tool and not know they are missing something. I'm not asking rhetorical questions here, and my intent is not hostile. I've been asking questions trying to get what to me seems the basic information about a newly introduced tool, and so far I do not believe you have been answering them, or if you have I certainly haven't understood your answers. - Jmabel ! talk 21:37, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jmabel Understanding a gadget doesn't solely come from asking questions; it's through hands-on experimentation that you truly grasp its capabilities. While this gadget boasts a myriad of features, it's easy to get fixated on one aspect and find yourself caught in an unending loop of inquiries. I've endeavored to provide comprehensive explanations, and you'll find a detailed list of what can be accomplished with this tool in its feature set. It's important to note that this gadget is still in active development, and I welcome any suggestions you may have for additional features. Please feel free to share your ideas; your input can help shape the future enhancements of the gadget. 𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 22:10, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Vikipolimer: I am not rejecting the tool either. I am not asking you to replicate a list of words which do not provide understanding. I would like one concrete example of how this is supposed to be better, more helpful, more advanced or more useful than the system we have now. I would appreciate documentation on the tool, as I showed above in the gyazo link, it is the only tool without any documentation in any language. And while you might understand it - it's obvious that the admins here do not understand and the answers we are getting sound like advertising for something wonderful. Why would we not want to use something wonderful? Obviously we do. Slow down a little and read the words of what is being written to you. People are asking for examples, not platitudes, and certainly not expecting you to get upset. Specifically from the link page you keep linking, it reads "support from the Wikipedia community play a vital role in further developing Adiutor into a more functional and user-friendly tool." What I see here is that it's not functional without instructions and also without instructions it's not user-friendly. Since there is no documentation, there is no way to understand what it does. Cheerleading and boostering isn't educational. Because you think it's that great - of course we'd like to use it - but you have to explain how and why it's better or important not just that it exists. You have several administrators trying really hard to work with you "support of the community" and all that, but I do not see that you are trying to work with us. Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
And I simply cannot find what you wrote above "The tool's functions and additional information are well-documented on its dedicated page" any documentation at all for Wikimedia Commons on the page which is linked here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Adiutor. Thank you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:48, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Hello @Ellin Beltz, this tool is compatible with the current MediaWiki UI as it is coded using MediaWiki JS and OOUI. Additionally, it can be used in a modular fashion, making it easy to add new modules and edit existing ones. This tool can be easily customized by interface administrators, and its code structure is not complex. You can access the documentation through the following links.
𝗩𝗶𝗸𝗶𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿 ℣ 10:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Are we sure podcasts are in scope?

I recently noticed that we have a lot of podcast audio files under Category:Podcasts and its subcategories. It's unclear to me whether most of these files are in scope, and I'm inclined to suspect that they are not. Some notable podcasts may be in scope as a topic (e.g. a Wikipedia article about "99% Invisible"), but this doesn't mean that every individual episode is in scope as well. Additionally, it's likely that some of these files contain excerpts of copyrighted content; the sheer volume of the podcasts makes them infeasible to review.

Is there any clear educational use case for this content, or should I start nominating some of it for deletion? Omphalographer (talk) 21:07, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Probably some of it -- maybe much of it -- is out of scope, but it would take a long time to work through. I'd say you'd want to give any of them at least a fair amount of sampling before nominating.
Seems to me that any appropriately licensed episode of a Wikipedia-notable podcast is probably in scope, just like almost any photo of a Wikipedia-notable person. - Jmabel ! talk 21:44, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Please go ahead and start purging the podcast category Trade (talk) 22:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
All right. I've started with two large groups of podcast files which are both out of scope and likely copyright issues:
Omphalographer (talk) 23:32, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Add Wikipedia Screenshot to licenses

Is it feasible to add {{Wikipedia-screenshot}} to the licenses dropdown/radio in both Special:Upload and the upload wizard? Aaron Liu (talk) 01:32, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

  • Is it really all that frequent a use case? - Jmabel ! talk 03:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
    I think so, it has thousands of transclusions and probably more common than free software screenshots Aaron Liu (talk) 13:21, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

File names

I read the file naming page (and associated talk page) but cannot find any rule on naming files with the goal of having them at the top of each category. Maybe Titles of media files should be meaningful and helpful in the language chosen covers it, but not explicitly. Benespit takes great photos of Korean cars, but they start all of their file names with a zero and a blank space - presumably to get more eyes on them. To me, that violates the logic of the Commons. The File naming talk page doesn't appear to get much use, which is why I am raising the issue here. I raised this question on Benespit's talk page a minute ago, so it's not like there is any conflict. No matter what, I think this would be worth mentioning in the File naming guidelines. There are a lot of uploads, so renaming them all will take a while. Best, mr.choppers (talk)-en- 15:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Not against the rules, but kind of annoying.
Really, if there is a matter of picking more useful images out of a large category, the right (and much more collaborative) way to do that is a gallery page rather than competitive file-naming. - Jmabel ! talk 18:15, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
as long as files are sorted by default alphabetically, under whatever regulation you come up there will still be the first "char" allowed, and users can still exploit those "permitted" sequences of chars.--RZuo (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Having thought about it, I think that Titles of media files should be meaningful and helpful in the language chosen is actually all that's needed - adding a leading zero and a space is neither meaningful nor helpful. Car photos are usually named <year><manufacturer><model><submodel><color><view><numeral> (not all elements are always present), because it helps people find images. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 20:36, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
i just have 2 ways here to add such numbers in a meaningful way. say i take 2 photos of the same car from different angles. i can just name it "01 beetle" and "02 beetle". serial numbers can be not only at the end but also at the start, right? or i change to a username that starts with a long string of "0 ", and then prefix all my uploads with my username. is that meaningful?--RZuo (talk) 17:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
No. Competitive file naming goes against the purpose of the Commons. Pictures should be given descriptive names which help users find images - not your images, but the images they seek. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 02:46, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
if you still dont understand, there is no rule prohibiting serial identifiers being at the start of filenames. in fact, there are plenty of them, e.g. Special:PrefixIndex/File:IMG.
here's a user whose name is exactly what i forecasted: User:0 0 0 zoome 0 0 0. there is also no rule prohibiting prefixing filenames with usernames.
therefore, such filenames are meaningful. RZuo (talk) 12:09, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
the way to get the pictures at the top of each category is not giving a bad name, it's using {{DEFAULTSORT}} in the description Hsarrazin (talk) 07:42, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
And conversely, if you want to remove a file from the top of a category, you can {{DEFAULTSORT}} it somewhere else. Please don't rename files just because you don't like where they fall in a category, except in the limited cases listed under COM:FR#FR4. --bjh21 (talk) 20:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
You can also add a sort key for selected categories -- it doesn't have to be via a DEFAULTSORT, which affects all categories. -- Auntof6 (talk) 05:33, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
You can also add sortkeys to individual images. And maybe just that should be done to move excellent, good and valued images to the top of the category for that they were voted as excellent. good or valued. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 11:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
I'm completely opposed to the (potentially competitive) use of sort keys to bring particular images to the front of a category. If you want to select out the most useful images, that is pretty much the canonical purpose of a gallery page. Or, if there are a very small number and a good consensus, they can even be placed in a <gallery> element at the top of the category page itself. (And when there is a single clear best image, that should be the image for a corresponding Wikidata item, if such an item exists.) - Jmabel ! talk 19:14, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Copyright question regarding set of images

Would the images in this article be suitable to be uploaded onto the project? They were taken by an individual from the United States military and released by the FBI following a FOI request, so {{PD-USGov-Military}} might be applicable.--WMrapids (talk) 21:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

  • @WMrapids: Probably OK for the ones that are, as you say, taken by an individual from the United States military, but do note that is not the case for some images there. - Jmabel ! talk 21:47, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
    @Jmabel: The "Courtesy" and other copyright lingo is unclear to me, so which ones would be OK to upload? (There are 8 images in the article, so you can say image 1, 4, X of 8 if that is helpful) Thanks for the quick response! WMrapids (talk) 21:52, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
    • @WMrapids: 1-unclear because uncredited. Vice might be willing to clarify if you write to them. 2-unclear: came through FOIA, but they don't say whether the original photographer was known to be a federal gov't employee. Again, Vice might be willing to clarify if you write to them. 3,4: clearly no, non-gov't sources. 5-8: taken by an individual from the United States military, so {{PD-USGov-Military}} applies. - Jmabel ! talk 21:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
      @Jmabel: Image 4 is was taken by Clarence Cooper, with the article saying "Many of these photos were later taken by a helicopter pilot with the US Army named Clarence Cooper". Would {{PD-USGov-Military}} apply for image 4? WMrapids (talk) 23:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
      • @WMrapids: Missed that. If it's clear that he took it in the line of duty, that would be fine. But it sounds like he might not have, and the credit suggests that they believe it is copyrighted. Note that the military/gov't is not the source. - Jmabel ! talk 00:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
the librarians at San Diego State University Special Collections explain it well here Guidelines for Photo Permissions. however, at the flickr feed, Peoples Temple / Jonestown Gallery they all have the default "all rights reserved". you might try emailing Rebecca Moore, per [1]. you should expect deletion nominations with a "personal photo, not a part of official duties"; good luck --Arnoseven (talk) 19:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

A controversial issue

Commons:Deletion requests/4 files uploaded by Cekli829 in 2013

Hello everybody. I am also writing here to draw your attention. I want to delete these 4 files that I uploaded 10 years ago. I think this issue needs a wide discussion. Thanks to all of you! --►Cekli829 10:44, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

  • I see no "controversial issue" here. You appear to be alone in believing that ten years after the fact you should be able to revoke your irrevocable license. And, while I am trying to assume good faith, your argument that the background constitutes copyright infringement is either insincere or naive. Clearly that is de minimis, and if the concern were genuine it would be, at most, a reason to blur elements in the background, not to delete the photos outright.
  • Also, if you canvass (as you did here), you are supposed to mention that on the original discussion, which you did not do. (I see no mention in the original deletion discussion of you posting to the Village pump.
Jmabel ! talk 14:56, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
The whole idea behind an irrevocable license is that it can't be revoked, if we let people arbitrarily revoke free licenses a decade after the fact we are setting bad precedent. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
You also have no need to canvass, as people who are interested in your discussion will naturally come. There is no need to rush. Grandmaster Huon (talk) 20:31, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/09&oldid=803479585"